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In this life we can not always do great things. But we can do small things with great love.." :) Mother Teresa

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“I pray because I can't help myself. I pray because I'm helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time- waking and sleeping. It doesn't change God- it changes me.”
― C. S. Lewis


I believe in the sun even when it's not shining. I believe in love even when I don't feel it. And I believe in God even when He is silent. (quote found on the wall of a concentration camp)

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Saturday, June 11, 2011

An Article on Discipline ?

I read a link that a friend posted on a website.... The link was an article supposedly on Discipline.  But it wasn't really on discipline. It was on punishment.  I saw this photo, and it sent chills through my body.  I read "willful definance and disobedience" and the first person to come to mind was the author of "Dare to Discipline" and  "The Strong Willed Child" and then the revamped versions of both of those books.
The caption under the paddle was "discipline when necessary"...... UM  isn't discipline, true discipline something we do ALL the time????  So OBVIOUSLY this wouldn't mean "punish all the time"!

It GREATLY disturbs me when people use the word discipline to be equal to punish.  They are INDEED not the same thing.

So, in conversation with a friend who recommended this article another article was posted to back up the position of spanking.....
 and here is a quote from this site:
God tells us that for willful disobedience and defiance, that corporal discipline is an appropriate form of discipline. He also says that parents who refuse to ever use this form of discipline "hate" their children

Not only is this NOT in scripture, it is an outright LIE.    The bible does not say he who refuses to use THIS form of discipline hates his son.  It says HE who REFUSES to discipline his son, hates his son. 

There is a HUGE difference!  I would say if you refuse to discipline your child, it is as if you hate them, because it is going to be destructive for them.  But if you guide and teach them....(discipline them) then you LOVE your son.

Of course these authors tell people that if they do not punish their children with corporal punishment, they are disobeying God, they are sending their children to hell, they are not teaching their children repentence etc. because they need a justification for what they do.
I found this in the old testament:  
Deut 8:
 1 “All the commandments that I am commanding you today you shall be careful to do, that you (A)may live and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD swore to give to your forefathers. 2 (B)You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has (C)led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, (D)testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. 3 He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you [a]understand that (E)man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD. 4 (F)Your clothing did not wear out on you, nor did your foot swell these forty years. 5 (G)Thus you are to know in your heart that the LORD your God was disciplining you just as a man disciplines his son.

This sounds like TEACHING to me!  God gave the Israelites experiences and was WITH THEM to guide them and TEACH them, which IS discipline, so they could then posess the land.

In Deut 6:
These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the door frames of your houses and on your gates. 

He did not even say FORCE them onto your children. He said "Impress them" this means to TEACH THEM  and to GUIDE them.....and make a lasting impression on them.... so they KNOW that this is the right way to live.

 I do believe we should  teach our children the Law.... in song, in action, and make it a part of their instruction..... 
One of the songs we use is really fun....

The Perfect 10

#1 we've just begun God should be first in your life
#2 The idol rule, those gaven images aren't nice
#3 God's name should be, NEVER spoken in jest
#4 The sabbaths for your worship and for rest.
#5 We always strive to honor father and mother
#6 don't get your kicks from killing one another
#7 Life is Heaven when you're true to your mate
#8 Don't Steal and break this rule for goodness sake!
#9 Don't be the kind who goes around telling lies
#10 Don't covet when you see your neighbor's house, or bike
That's the list and God insists we stay away from these sins
That is why we memorize commandments one through ten.

(couldn't find Anna for this video) :)
We have used this song many times to instruct the children to righteousness and repentance.  And to help them see that they TRULY need a savior.  Because we cannot do this on our own merit...

If a person chooses to use spanking as a punishment tool, then that is not my business.  It is still legal in the United States to use this method.... 
But if somebody is to say, You MUST do this... YOU MUST do it THIS WAY or you are not obeying GOD, THAT IS my business!And I will say something... or blog something. :) Because I remember long ago being in that bondage.... being taught that was the ONLY way..... That is how I came to study it so much, because I didn't understand how that was true. And I found out, it wasn't..... God wants us to be BEREANS of the word and to study.  We really need to be careful that we don't just take what somebody says, INCLUDING ME, without really examining it and holding it up to the Word of God.

It really does amaze me how many people get up in arms about simple love.  How can LOVE win a heart?  How can LOVE change a child from angry to happy?  How can LOVE be the key?
GOD is the one who created LOVE.  It is disturbing how we fight it so. :(

We want to PUNISH instead of disciple, to HUMILIATE instead of teaching one to be humble,  to strike fear, when the scripture says, "Perfect Love Casts Out Fear",  to DEMAND when scripture calls us to be servants.  
SO, if JESUS PAID IT ALL, as the song we sing says, why do we make our children pay too?  Why would we teach them that because they disobeyed, they have to pay with a spanking?
How about presenting the gospel..... and teaching them the truths of scripture?  And lovingly leading them in prayer and  instruction?  



dulce de leche said...

Beautifully expressed! Thank you so very much for this post! <3

Ivy said...

Well, once again--AMEN! I totally agree! (no surprise there though...) and oooo wow.... that quote was bad. (where was this article anyway? I would like to see it.)

Anonymous said...

It's why I am more and more, everyday, thinking more and more about Barnabas. When John Mark was seemingly at that point that he could have been "disciplined" as it were, Barnabas stayed by his side, didn't leave him. I am to assume from the outcome that Barnabas took the time to educate John Mark and mentor him, disciple him- discipline him. Good post.

Though we have spanked early in our boys lives, I could count on my hands the times we did for all three of them. I would not do it now. We have butt pinched, but more to quickly gain attention to then teach.

Something tells me your swing is far more effective than spanking and I am looking forward to reading my BCLC book in about two weeks.

Christie M said...

Ivy, the first one is :http://bradwhitt.com/2011/06/fridays-are-for-family-dare-to-discipline/

The second one is:

Unknown said...

Now there are people, who don't use corporal punishment, but literally all ways of discipline involve physical beatings. Seen that, seen the results, and it's super disturbing when someone wants to beat godliness into their kids.

Also, I'd like to ask those certain Christian authors to stop pick and choosing passages from the Tanakh to adhere to when they keep claiming the rest is outdated.

Unknown said...

Of course by the pick and choosing I meant to always put the verse in Proverbs forth about resting the rod... Yet ignoring the very verses you quoted... including the commandment for the tefillin and mezzuzah. :)

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